I think we’re cautious and wary of the fact that we can write these documents and even stick them to the walls, as we have, and still create a space that’s kind of problematic for some people. Clubs are dark, full of people who are drunk and at times our audiences have people in them who are really unable to comprehend the fact that they’re making other people uncomfortable or taking up way too much space. It’s tiring because it’s hard to know how to actually effectively fight the battle. Even now I’ve noticed some people who used to come to our shows who might not because it’s too anxiety inducing, in spite of our efforts.

That’s really fucked, and so difficult because it’s really hard to try change such an awful part of nightlife in cities. Like even with a concentrated effort from venues, artists and promotors, it’s still hard to get rid of. I think you made a really good call for allies to intervene and ensure everyone is safe though.

It would be great if it worked a bit better. I think there’s a problem here in Sydney also of there being few venues in which the security really understand the kinds of spaces we’re trying to create. Which is partly on promoters, but it would be lovely if there were spaces that were more autonomous from a mainstream club environment, like Red Rattler in Marrickville.

In many cases, the statutes requiring security actually creates a more oppressive atmosphere. I’m thinking places like Hudson Ballroom, the Imperial, places I don’t actually feel good entering.

Totally, what are security even there for if it’s not to keep everyone in their venue safe?

Certainly, and maybe I’m being unfair, maybe I have a kind of bias. but I’ve never felt more safe in a venue with security.

The first time I properly met you irl was when you came up to me commenting on me DJing All That Matters by Justin Bieber. Thanks for that, it made me feel more at ease playing shameless pop to a room populated by a pretty large number of bros! Personally I find that kind of pop music a great release from pressures of masculinity in those spaces. Do you use pop music for anything other than enjoyment?

I definitely feel that. I’ve really sincerely found a lot of catharsis and healing in pop music, often even more than like, whatever tasteful indie fave. Justin Bieber’s Purpose album came out at a time when my mental health had been in a really bad place and it was honestly so powerful and important for me. His candidness in interviews about learning to trust himself and be soft and loving gave me so much life. Ariana Grande’s albums have all come out at emotionally tender times for me too and I associate so much warmth with her and her music.

These last few weeks have been fucked. What have you found comfort in lately?

It’s shocking, I’ve actually never had such a real feeling of dread and despair about the state of the world. I’ve just been trying to focus on what is tangibly constructive and not devote energy to like, keeping up with hot takes and thinkpieces on the internet. Social media can be pretty draining at times like this and I have to remind myself I can just log out.